Another Falwell will come to 'power' until people recognize snakes as snakes...

...and to clarify, I am not glad he is dead. This means he has no chance to make up for his ills in this life.

So you wouldn't be glad if Bill Keller died?

I am not glad Falwell is dead, nor would I wish Bill Keller dead. What I wish is that people like Falwell and keller would stop trying to put their religious beliefs into law, and stop trying to gain money & power by spreading hate.

I do not wish death upon Bill Keller either. I just wish he'd see what a foul and corrupted person he is.

Wow.

Apparently my favorite hobby of verbally slapping Rawisbetter has become an offense.

My replies have been tagged. lol

Such a pity. I was waiting to see what he had to say about being labelled a "Troll" on his new fav website.

Such a pity.

Meh. No loss either way. :)

Doin' alright?

Doin as well as I could hope. The company transfered me to Atlanta. Bad side of that is not living in FL, but the good side is more travel and being home every weekend.

How are things in your neck of the woods?

Shoot, Hotlanta? Well, better night life than Tampa. There's always that famous strip joint The Clermont (sp?) where they feature big ladies, lol.

Things are good. Water table's way down, but knock on wood our well is still pumping fine.

I've got my first professional cattle-call audition coming this monday in Charlotte. 30-40 theatre companies (traveling, cruise ships, children's, theme park, etc) will be there. You get 60 or 90 seconds to do your thing. Then the companies post call-backs. if you are on their list, you sign up for a time slot and you hope it'll land you a good paying gig. I may end up spending less time at home than you, but it will be toward a good cause; namely my career.

Here's to hoping I've worked hard enough!

Break A Leg!!!

BTW, I'll be up in your part of the world next week. I'll be in Wilson NC for a few days co-teaching a class.

Get some Bar B Q while you're down there. Should be the eastern NC vinegar-based sauce. Damn good vittles.

You're still like 2 1/2 hours away or more. Shame. Hopefully you'll get up to the mountains someday.

Scratch that, you're gonna be 4 1/2 hours away. I think ATL is closer than Wilson, via 441

Goddammit! There was nothing wrong with the posts that were made. It was not getting ugly at all.

Why in the hell was this deleted?

Great, I can post "goddammit" but not "m0lest".

Who wrote the list for the filter?

Hmmm, could it beeeee......SATAN?

Deal with it. Gametalk isn't fair.

It doesn't matter if the situation isn't hostile. Mods can do what they want. Doesn't matter if you disagree with them. You have no say. The U.S. constitution doesn't apply here. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. Go somewhere else if you want to talk about whatever you want. This is a controlled site.

Unless you kiss everyone's ass, then you don't have a say on anything here. You have no rights here.

WinterBorn, I don't know who wrote the filter list, but there are quite a few peculiarities about it I still can't figure out.

As for the tagged replies:

a first bunch of them were tagged because of the language used, or so I gather;

a second bunch were tagged because somebody (can't remember his name) complained about this 'selective tagging', claiming that it was made with the deliberate intent of making him look stupid. While thinking that he doesn't need added help to look stupid, I concur that the entire conversation seemed odd without some part of it and, since it didn't look like a vital piece of exchange, I myself tagged the whole bunch;

a third bunch was tagged because somebody was spreading rumours about somebody else being a pedophile. Even if the 'somebody else' is yourself and you are perfectly comfortable with it, I'm not gonna let any of that crap up;

a fourth bunch was tagged as pre-emptive response to somebody possibly complaining about selective tagging made with with the deliberate intent of making him look stupid.

Every care has been taken in order not to abscond from view any post which did not fall under any of the above four situations, even if I'm of the opinion that you and Tek Jansen might well have casual conversations about BAR B Q's in some other Gametalk forum.

I perfectly agree with this guy here about going 'somewhere else if you want to talk about whatever you want. This is a controlled site.' While perhaps not in these exact words, that is indeed the situation: I would be only too glad to create a forum on proboard or anywhere else for free so that you can freely enjoy the pleasure of accusing each other of being a pedophile, a terrorist, a moron, whatever, with no limitations about language and/or content. Heck, I would probably join you there.

As for the rest, social life is a combination of rights and duties. I know very few instances where somebody can simply pick the rights and forfeit the duties and they generally wear a crown. For the rest of us, it's generally get them both or none at all.

And finally, as a mere 'by the way', you and Tek Jansen have been both accused on several occasions of being 'ass-kissers' to one or more mods and, because of that, of receiving preferential treatment. I guess this instance shows that such claim is completely unfounded. Actually the only preferential treatment I'm using now is not banning the one who used such a language which would probably be deemed unsuitable for the annual brick-layer convention (over here brick-layers are perceived as being very foul-mouthed).

I have no doubts that a formal complaint will be lodged against me for that reason, but hey, there's only so many things you can do to square a circle.

Uhm... 'a bunch was' or 'a bunch were'?

Ok Masse, I guess you did what you thought was best. At least it was even handed. (I was still waiting to see my preferential treatment, lol)

As for defending me from the accusations of being a pedophile, I appreciate the sentiment you showed in tagging it. I see it as raw's attempt to get under my skin. God knows its not the first thing he has tried. Thanks for noticing it.

"The U.S. constitution doesn't apply here. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. Go somewhere else if you want to talk about whatever you want. This is a controlled site."

That is actually quite accurate. The people who own this site and pay for the bandwidth get to make the rules. I think they said it best on DailyKos. "If he decides tomorrow that anyone not posting in iambic pentameter will be banned, your options are either to brush up on your poetry skills or find/start another forum."

Nothing lost on my end.

Incidentally, one of the reasons I have taken so long to end up in the professional theatre world is because I refused to kiss asses. It's all been on my terms...something I hope will continue ad infinitum.

You know I'm right....

Have fun 'bringing GT down', tuffguy.

Oh Masse, the only thing you're doing is making me look good. You seriously look like you're trying to hide something.

You mispelled your own name.

Dude, how pathetic are you?

Pathetic? Nah, I see that Masse is winning. lol

I guess if you had become a mod, like you said you were, this wouldn't be a problem, huh?

Note to readers: conversation in this thread may appear not as free-flowing as you would expect. That is due to the fact that posts containing insults, set-ups of non-amicable meetings, threats and false accusations of hideous crimes have been absconded from view. Likewise, in the attempt to preserve what little sense of the conversation was possible to salvage, direct replies to any of the tagged posts have been tagged too.

Any further defamation, however indirect, of Gametalk users implying that they are either guilty of or trying to committ sex-related crimes against minors will result in a permanent ban.

I probably shouldn't have brought up the thing about Raw and his threat on my family. I concede that.

But banning rawisbetter because he accuses me of the nonsense he has accused me of is not at all what I want.

Obviously, some people would get upset about the accusations. If they were true I would be upset that he told people.

But they are not true and I think everyone knows that.

Let him rattle on about it, Masse. The more time he spends calling me "Arnold", the less time he has for disrupting other threads.

It is meaningless to me.

"false accusations of hideous crimes"

I read Rawibs's words, and they contained said threats.... the accusations are not false. I will not be called a liar by a person I consider to be a friend.

BTW Winterborn, your spam filter on myspace blows. It made Tom think my acct. had been phished. Send me a message when you get a chance.

Tek, I think Masse is refering to rawisbetter's accusations that I am a pedophile.

D'OH!

(I'm not highly embarrassed or anything....)

My apologies, Masse.

Good old overreacting Tek! :)

WinterBorn, I'm not concerned about you at all. I mean I know that you're big and rational enough to take these false accusations with a smile.

Actually I'm a bit more concerned about the one throwing accusations around, because libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium) is a crime in many Nations. I don't suppose that he will perceive that I'm protecting him by tagging those posts, but hey, you can't get wine from bricks and, honestly, who cares anyway?

Then I'm much more concerned about Gametalk. Allegations or imputations of criminal activity (especially of such nature) are defamatory per se. And, like it recently happened with Youtube, the 'host' can be held responsible for not taking adequate action to prevent or remove the defamatory statement(s).

Then again I'm more or less equally concerned about Gametalkers. While not particularly strict on language, I do realize that Gametalk is frequented by people of all ages. And I wouldn't want to learn that someone decided to get away (or to get their kids away) from it just because safe is better than sorry.

I guess that pretty much sums it up.

Lol, I overreact far less in person. I'm not good at interpreting tone in text.

My girlfriend says I don't react ENOUGH sometimes (with her, with my mother). I am good at playing the big scary boyfriend when the situation calls for it, though.

Masse (the dictator) protecting Rawisbetter from legal action. Now THAT is something he won't be able to stand.

I understand what you mean, Masse.

What's wrong Masse? Scared of me? Is that why you have to tag anything that makes your buddies look bad?

Legal action?

So let me get this strait. You can take action against someone who accuses people of being child molesters, who actually makes a good case for it? Yeah right. I live in America pal. This is the land of the free. We have a thing called freedom of speech. I don't bitch about people threatening me or accusing me of certain things. I don't care about that. They can say what they want and I can say what I want. But you just keep telling yourself that I could go to jail over this in your commie home.

Raw, he is tagging all our stuff, not just yours.

And you keep talking about freedom of speech, but it has limits. Yes, I could sue you for defamation of character. And the site can get sued for your words.

Freedom of speech guaranteed in the US Constitution does not apply to a privately owned site. You seem to have trouble grasping that fact.

And the right to free speech does not mean you can say anything anywhere.

Try yelling fire in a crowded theater and you will go to jail.

Say the word "bomb" in an airport where security can hear you and you will go to jail.

Masse took the time to explain even though he didn't have to do so. So quit being a little crybaby.

"Raw, he is tagging all our stuff, not just yours."

That makes it soooooo much better.

"Yes, I could sue you for defamation of character. And the site can get sued for your words."

If that's the case, then I could sue about 30 people here.

HeII, wawl spammed all the forums with CHILD PORN and he's still around. I called the freakin cops on him and NOTHING happened.

And let's not forget about that Canadian Content site. About 5 people there accused ME of being a pedophile, but you don't see me bringing up the possibility of taking action against them.

"Masse took the time to explain even though he didn't have to do so. So quit being a little crybaby."

It's not just the pedophile storyline. It's so much more. Abortion threads, stem cell threads, christian threads, racism threads, conservative threads, Bill Keller threads, Bush threads, Gay threads etc....ALL of those get tagged! Mods never give reason why they do it. Most of them are just me expressing my opinion. Most of them contain NO flaming whatsoever and they still get tagged. Masse and Kain are the two main ones. It pisses me off when they do that and leave other people's threads that are equally as bad as they claim. I'm dealing with commies here!

Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., 497 U.S. 1 (1990)

Its not you expressing your opinion, its you just trying to piss people off. And you succeeded. You pissed off the people who run this place.

You keep saying its you just playing the villian, but the villian gets nailed at the end.

You got what you have earned, raw. Now at least be man enough to own up to it.

"Girl......you'll be a woman...soon."

--Urge Overkill

You know, I hate involving myself for any amount of time within troll posts, but honestly, Raw, from all the times you use the term "Commie", you only make yourself appear more uneducated.

"Commie" is slang for communism/communist, which is a system of government that has no class hierarchy and pretty much pays everyone the same wage regardless of the quantity of effort or importance.

The past has proven that communism is usually quick to fall to the corruption of the leader, and usually leads to a system of government that usually resembles an autocracy or an oligarchy.

HOwever, Communism does not ecessarily mean facism, and definatley does not represent evil. The notion that communism is "Evil", a word that has no place when referring to systems of government, really came about in the Cold War, where fear of communism really turned to an outright phobia. This really caught on among the stupid and uninformed of America, who love America like 6 year-olds love their mothers: "Mommy is good, and anyone who doesn't agree with mommy is bad".

Communism as "Evil" or "Facist" is inaccurate, and more over, indicates that you are either stupid, or that you still think like a six year-old.

However, if you called 'em "Nazis" or just plain "Facists", you would still sound like a common idiot, being that by saying that, you also confess that you are new, or can't intellectually grasp the boundaries and framework of "Individual Rights" created by the constitution, yet, you would at least create a better message.

I'm out.

I think Geemel just called all the patriotic Americans stupid because we all agree that communism is evil and dictating.

Masse, Tek, you can't beat me. You know you can't and thats why you posted lame remarks after my unstoppable argument.

WinterBorn/Stonemage/other names, I'm glad you admit that I'm a success. I'm glad you acknowledge that I'm good at what I do.

"Its not you expressing your opinion, its you just trying to piss people off."

It's the villan expressing his opinion. Believe it or not, a lot of Americans feel that way. Sean Hannity, Bill O Reilly, Bill Keller, Ann Coulter and the Christian Conservatives.

"You pissed off the people who run this place."

Which proves my point that this place is corrupt.

"You got what you have earned, raw. Now at least be man enough to own up to it."

What happened to me is what would have happened to anyone else that shares my views. This is a radical far-left website. If you say gays will burn in heII, then you will be treated unfairly.

Dude, I did provide a strong case against you. Masse tags everything about that! And are you telling me now that you won't give a photo of you without shades?

And while you are at it, rawisbetter, lets hear you pass sentence.

I am curious exactly what you plan to DO. Not just spouting accusations. But what will you do?

Drive to atlanta again? Exit 111 on I-85?

No, I don't trust you anymore. If I am right(Oh no Masse's gonna ban me. boo hoo) then that's good enough for me. I'm Right! Raw was right! I can hear it now. Raw! Raw! Raw! Raw! Raw! Raw!

Plus everyone would hate you.

I am telling you that I am not giving you one more thing. I have given out more personal information than anyone on any of these forums.

So go ahead raw. Tell everyone what it is that you claim you know.

Tell everyone what it is that you are going to do.

"Any further defamation, however indirect, of Gametalk users implying that they are either guilty of or trying to committ sex-related crimes against minors will result in a permanent ban."

So Masse will ban me forever because I want to protect the kids here from 47 year old guy, who may be a pedophile. Hey, he could end all of this, but refuses to.

No comment on Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., 497 U.S. 1 (1990)? I thought so.

Protection of kids against alleged pedophiles is best carried out by contacting the competent authorities. Which is what anybody can do. Gametalk as a legal entity has ascertained to its satisfaction the identity of the person going under the nickname 'WinterBorn' and is positive that he is not the person you falsely and repeatedly accused him to be. Gametalk (and I suppose WinterBorn too) will be only too glad to disclose details of his identity to the competent authorities if so required.

Personal details will not given out to any passing moron.

"Hey, he could end all of this, but refuses to."

Where have we heard this before? Lets see, you said this about me coming to fight you.

You said this about me proving I was not Tek.

Now you say this because my picture shows me wearing sunglasses.

For someone who is supposedly just here to piss people off, you are certainly fond of wanting me to prove things to you.

I have offered up more personal info in answer to baseless charges than I should have. And you want more? Get real.

If you are so sure I am a pedophile, then find proof.

But then, just as GameTalk is liable for your actions on here, don't you think they would be liable if they allowed a known pedophile to remain here? Wake up raw. This latest tactic isn't working any better than the previous one.

And raw, do you actually think anyone on these forums believes that you are motivated by a desire to protect kids?? Come on, even you aren't that ignorant.

"Hey, he could end all of this, but refuses to."

"Where have we heard this before? Lets see, you said this about me coming to fight you.

You said this about me proving I was not Tek.

Now you say this because my picture shows me wearing sunglasses."

Don't do that. You CAN easily end all of this by showing a pic of your whole face. By refusing to do that, it makes you look guilty of being a pedophile. I mean hey, you showed us the catfish photo and your Yahoo profile WITH NO NAME, but a pic of your whole face. That's saying too much? Please. And real nice there pretending to give me a link of your whole face, and then having it not work. Real nice...

"But then, just as GameTalk is liable for your actions on here, don't you think they would be liable if they allowed a known pedophile to remain here? Wake up raw. This latest tactic isn't working any better than the previous one."

My point is NO ONE thinks you could be a pedophile because everyone likes you. I mean you suck up to everyone and make up stories about how you beat up kkk members. Who's not going to like you besides me and anyone else with a brain? "WinterBorn could never be evil and you know what? I'm not gonna even look into it because it sounds so ridiculous." I HATE YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!

"And raw, do you actually think anyone on these forums believes that you are motivated by a desire to protect kids?? Come on, even you aren't that ignorant."

Believe it or not, but I don't want child predators here.

"Protection of kids against alleged pedophiles is best carried out by contacting the competent authorities."

First of all, I already called the cops on Wawl when he posted child porn here and HEARD NOTHING BACK! And nice try Masse. You know the only way Mike or "chris" can sue me is if I get the cops involved in this VERY suspicious case.

I tried to change my pic on yahoo and the system kept going to the "yahoo is closing its photos files, please move them to...." I wasted at least an hour of my life then I will never get back.

Whats the matter, you don't like my $100 Raybans?

The only one suspicious of me is you, raw. But feel free to keep posting this garbage.

No one is listening anymore. Didn't you notice the lack of responses when you call me a pedophile? Didn't you notice the lack of responses when you brought up the kkk thing?

Tek, Masse, and I are the only ones responding to this trash. Masse is being responsible, and Tek and I like to mess with you for our own amusement.

"I tried to change my pic on yahoo and the system kept going to the "yahoo is closing its photos files, please move them to...." I wasted at least an hour of my life then I will never get back."

Sure..........

"The only one suspicious of me is you, raw."

Besides Homicide, ampy, black stray cat, peek a boo, and prince of pain then yes, I'm the only one that's admitted to being suspicious of you.

"No one is listening anymore. Didn't you notice the lack of responses when you call me a pedophile? Didn't you notice the lack of responses when you brought up the kkk thing?"

That's because they're freaked out. And why would they be freaked out? Because they also find this whole thing a little suspicious.

"But feel free to keep posting this garbage."

"Tek, Masse, and I are the only ones responding to this trash."

Why so hostile? If you got nothing to hide, then you won't be losing your cool.

And you never answered me. I'm pretty sure you didn't use myspace or Yahoo to post the catfish photo. Why don't you just put the photo I'm asking for on that?

Then Homicide, ampy, black stray cat, peek a boo, and prince of pain plus this guy here who has serious trouble understanding the meaning of the Constitution of his own Nation can contact the competent authorities and provide them with their own suspicions and abundant evidence.

I'm sure the competent authorities will be only to glad to provide a bona-fide lawyer for them who, while at it, could also explain to them one or two things about how a legal system works.

"Then Homicide, ampy, black stray cat, peek a boo, and prince of pain plus this guy here who has serious trouble understanding the meaning of the Constitution of his own Nation can contact the competent authorities and provide them with their own suspicions and abundant evidence."

No one's falling for it. I'm not getting sued so I aint doing that. Moving on.

So Masse, do you know WinterBorn?

So caring for the safety of young kids, yet so coward and/or selfish that he will not do the only right thing by contacting the police. How typical.

Didn't answer me. Do you know WinterBorn.

Which part of

'Gametalk as a legal entity has ascertained to its satisfaction the identity of the person going under the nickname 'WinterBorn' and is positive that he is not the person you falsely and repeatedly accused him to be.'

did not make it to the that part of that thing you solely use to keep your ears separated so that you had to ask a redundant question?

You could have just typed that. Link please. And I could be wrong about WinterBorn. He could prove me wrong just like that.

Do you know WinterBorn?

"I HATE YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!"

Funniest rawibs moment yet.

I did not just type that, I copied and pasted it from above.

Neither WinterBorn is under any obligation to prove anything to anybody but the competent authorities, nor I to respond to any stupid question.

Quit stalling Masse.

"I did not just type that, I copied and pasted it from above."

Then you could have just typed that when you originally posted it. Link please.

Masse lives in Italy. WinterBorn lives in America. Masse won't answer me so I'll assume he doesn't know WinterBorn in person. So........

What about the kkk story he told? Do you think that's real?

The guy slaloming around anything he can't respond to accusing someone else of stalling? How interesting!

Anyone can contact the owner and administrator of the website for matters concerning Gametalk, especially legal matters.

Rats, and now we are back in the Middle Ages, with no way of knowing anybody but walking or riding a horse to the place they live in. How weird!

I'm not the one stalling here. You refuse to tell me if you just typed that stuff. You refused to tell me if you know WinterBorn in person. And you refuse to tell me if you think the KKK story is real.

"Neither WinterBorn is under any obligation to prove anything to anybody but the competent authorities, nor I to respond to any stupid question."

So asking you if you know WinterBorn in person is stupid?

It's stupid to ask you if you think a story with tons of flaws is real or not?

And asking you if you just made up some official statement from GT is stupid?

Those are stupid questions even though you refuse to answer any of them? Sounds just like a dictator if you ask me.

"Anyone can contact the owner and administrator of the website for matters concerning Gametalk, especially legal matters."

First of all, I have no idea how to do that. Second, I think you guys will sue me if I do that. These cheap little tactics won't work on KingRaw!. Just answer me here.

KingRaw, stop being such an idiot and prostituting yourself out as a mod beater to other forums. Now that the people of the wrestling forum know who you are, they arn't going to support or cheer for you.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for Masse as a mod.

Why?

'Gametalk as a legal entity has ascertained to its satisfaction the identity of the person going under the nickname 'WinterBorn' and is positive that he is not the person you falsely and repeatedly accused him to be.'

This is now the third time this sentence appears in this thread. If you're unable to see there the answer to your question, which, as any question, tends to look stupid when it has already been answered to, then it's not my problem.

Perhaps you're not as bright as you think you are? Like you've been here for ages and still need someone to point you to Mike's Gametalk mail address? C'mon, these cheap little tacticts won't work on plain old Masse.

SilverBolt, didn't you get all neo-conservative on me for saying that not every single US soldier deserves respect? Yeah, thought so.

Masse, it doesn't matter how many times you paste that. Until you give me the link in which Gametalk actually states that, then you are just a mod who's sticking up for a friend.

Then give me Mike's E-mail.

Find it yourself, genius!

Or better yet, meet me in an hour in Las Vegas. Pahor Drive, just off W Charleston Boulevard in front of the University Medical Centre. I'll be in a metallic-grey car. If I can find the pilot of my jet, that is. But be there, or you'll look like a coward.

Find it myself? You bring up the fact that I don't know Mike's e-mail and when I ask you, you tell me to find it myself. Gee, I wonder why I don't know his e-mail?

And repeating the same exact thing I'm questioning you on. Boy I'm convinced you didn't make up that official GT statement.

I'll be back later today.

Predictions

-Masse will tag all the new posts I made in order to make himself look like the winner here.

-After reading that, he will laugh at me for saying I won this argument. He will then say something like "WinterBorn is not a pedophile. He doesn't have to answer any of your stupid questions. Trust me, I know he's not like that. And how do I know? We are pals here lol."

-Then Masse will repeat the same message from Gametalk, even though he refuses to give a link to me that confirms Gametalk actually made that statement instead of him just making that up in order to cover for his buddy.

-Then WinterBorn will come on and ignore what I said about that one link that actually works. You know, that link where he showed that Catfish photo. That link that I'm pretty sure wasn't on myspace or yahoo. Yeah, he'll ignore that and say he doesn't have to show me a photo of his whole face, even though he agreed to do it.

-After Masse tags that, Tek will come on and make some dumb little remark that no one laughs at.

-Then WinterBorn and Masse will say I'm wrong and they're right even though they both refuse to answer the most simple questions that would end all of this.

I'll be back later unless Masse bans me......

Good for you you don't make a living by making predictions, and bad for you that you didn't show up, I had a bottle of Brunello di Montalcino for you and all the information you wanted. Yet, given the coward you are, it was to be expected.

Well, to cut it short:

Jumped on my jet, took off, zoomed over the Atlantic, landed in Vegas, jumped in the car I keep over there, drove to Pahor Drive. Just made in on the strike of the hour. Waited half an hour, drove back to the airport, took off, landed in Atlanta, got a cab to WinterBorn's home, enjoyed great BBQ with two bottles of Brunello di Montalcino (no reason to save yours, was there?), back to airport, got a pic of us two together, took off, zoomed back over the Atlantic, landed in Orio al Serio, drove back to the office. In just a little over 5 hours.

Could have spared myself a trip to Las Vegas, since I knew you would have weaseled out of it, I would have had a little more time to gulp down the BBQ and the wine. My stomach is still a bit upset.

Oh, and here's evidence, of course:

http://tinyurl.com/2a93fn

That was taken by the pilot while I was waiting for you. Mine's the metallic-grey car parked at the end of the cul-de-sac (if that's what you call it).

And here's me and WinterBorn:

http://tinyurl.com/ypufvo

The John Waynish hat I'm wearing was, of course, WinterBorn's idea.

Now that you got all the evidence you need, I'll let you in on a little secret: of course I believe WinterBorn's KKK story is real. I was one of the guys he beat up. That's when I met him. Back then I didn't speak English very well, It took me a while to get him to understand that I was just a passerby. We had a good laugh and have been friends since.

Tek, sorry but I was in bit of a rush. Next time I'll pick you up too.

Prediction

I will go home and not post again 'til Monday.

SHUT THE FUCK UP MASSE!

mike@gametalk.com

Let's see what's wrong with this.....

"Good for you you don't make a living by making predictions, and bad for you that you didn't show up, I had a bottle of Brunello di Montalcino for you and all the information you wanted. Yet, given the coward you are, it was to be expected.........."

Yeah, I'm going from Lakeland Florida to Las Vegas in an hour to fight a guy who lives in Italy. Yeah ok derrr.

"Oh, and here's evidence, of course:

http://tinyurl.com/2a93fn"

It's a google map page.

"That was taken by the pilot while I was waiting for you. Mine's the metallic-grey car parked at the end of the cul-de-sac (if that's what you call it)."

Real funny. I'm so laughing right now....really....i'm not being sarcastic.

"And here's me and WinterBorn:

http://tinyurl.com/ypufvo

The John Waynish hat I'm wearing was, of course, WinterBorn's idea."

Let's see. I wanted a photo of WinterBorn's face and you post a picture of you two where your backs are facing the camera? Ok, I'm sure that's really you guys. Why wouldn't I believe that?

"Now that you got all the evidence you need, I'll let you in on a little secret: of course I believe WinterBorn's KKK story is real. I was one of the guys he beat up. That's when I met him. Back then I didn't speak English very well, It took me a while to get him to understand that I was just a passerby. We had a good laugh and have been friends since."

Let's see. The story took place in 1978. And that would make you what? 11? 12? So WinterBorn beats up kids? Well that's one thing I agree with you on. I mean Stonemage said twice that he thought I was a kid before the whole Catfish storyline.

Masse, you are only looking like someone covering for an internet buddy. No one thinks you're funny except Tek and "Chris". You still haven't answered my question about the Gametalk message you totally didn't make up.

WinterBorn, You can end all of this right now by giving me the photo I'm asking for. By not doing it, you look guilty. Plain and simple. I'm waiting.

I wonder masse what makes you think you're funny. i'm not siding with raw, not at all, but i think your 'sense of humor' is not humor at all, but rather, an arrogant "I'm better than you" attitude that one can find in bitter 40 year olds who failed at life (maybe their career never took off) and try to make themselves feel better by ridiculing others in the internet like you're doing with raw. I'm not going to try to make any guesses about your personal life but I just think that's the kind of person you are.

Funny how that sort of comment comes from a non reg name...almost as though it could have come here by proxy...

I laughed at the parking lot pic, but not quite as much as I did with Rawibs' quote:

"Let's see. I wanted a photo of WinterBorn's face and you post a picture of you two where your backs are facing the camera? Ok, I'm sure that's really you guys. Why wouldn't I believe that?"

Thick as a brick and half as quick.

NOW, do I believe Winterborn's KKK thing? Sure, why not. See, it doesn't affect my life one way or the other whether it's true or not, nor does it affect my opinion of Winterborn. Shit happens in people's lives. Sometimes people rise to an occasion....people like Rawibs probably never have, though. Besides that, Winterborn doesn't seem to care whether Rawibs believes him about anything. If Winterborn's words were lies, wouldn't he try to 'sell' his case more?

Rawibs, your getting all dark and weirdy again. Step into the light, Carol-Ann. You were improving there for a tick when you had more light and humorous approaches to SOME of the posts you made elsewhere. Now you just seem brooding and obsessed. Not that plotting revenge on a website over the course of a year is effing crazy AND retarded or anything.......

Maybe Homicide or whoever the possible proxy user is, is actually stating his or her opinion. Just because you disagree with Masse's lame jokes and his smart-ass attitude doesn't make you a douche bag Tek.

"NOW, do I believe Winterborn's KKK thing? Sure, why not. See, it doesn't affect my life one way or the other whether it's true or not, nor does it affect my opinion of Winterborn. Shit happens in people's lives. Sometimes people rise to an occasion....people like Rawibs probably never have, though. Besides that, Winterborn doesn't seem to care whether Rawibs believes him about anything. If Winterborn's words were lies, wouldn't he try to 'sell' his case more?"

That's what he wants you to think. You can be sarcastic all you want Tek, but no one with a brain actually believes that story. An 18 year old sees two kkk members chasing a kid with two weapons, so he gets out of his car and confronts them. One of the two grown men with weapons is so scared by the 18 year old with no weapons at all, he runs away. The other grown man with the weapon attacks WinterBorn. Stonemage ends up winning. NOT BUYING IT!!!

Raw, as a matter of fact I did post the Catfish Country photo on my yahoo account.

Tell me your email addy and I'll email you my pic. How is that?

Now, as for why Gametalk might be satisfied as to my identity.

One of the long time mods (in fact worked closely with Mike in hiring mods ect, setting up forums ect) has known me for over 15 years. She and I became friends when I was still married to my first wife and my kids were little. She has known my kids for that entire time. She corresponds with them online. If there was any question about me, she would have certainly informed the mgmt of GameTalk that your accusations were false.

Your demanding a link for such a discussion is a waste of time. If its in the mds forum, you have no business going there.

The kkk story is true. Want to keep bringing it up and calling me a liar? Ok, thats fine with me. It changes nothing in my life.

As soon as I get a Yahoo E-mail address, I'll contact you. Look at what I just said. IT BEGINS. Next he'll be wanting to meet me somewhere. And when he does, I post it!!!

"The kkk story is true. Want to keep bringing it up and calling me a liar? Ok, thats fine with me. It changes nothing in my life."

Then let's talk about it. You begin....

If I wanted to meet you somewhere, I would post it on the forums. No problem.

You HAD a yahoo account. I am not looking specifically for a yahoo account. You want to see my pic, I'll email it to you. All you need is an email account.

But I think this entire tantrum is not about whether or not I am a pedophile. Its about you still trying to make me look bad.

As for discussing the events in Eutaw Al, or catfish country, or my being Tek, I am not interested. I am sure you will decide my lack of interest "proves" my guilt or that I am lying. But then, you claimed it "proved" I was Tek. But we both know the mods shot that whole thing down.

Find a new hobby rawisbetter. This one only makes you look like a lunatic.

Don't worry, I'll get the E-mail soon.

"But I think this entire tantrum is not about whether or not I am a pedophile. Its about you still trying to make me look bad."

That was the case at first, but now it really seems like I'm onto something.....

"As for discussing the events in Eutaw Al, or catfish country, or my being Tek, I am not interested."

Too bad because I'll still talk about it. So the story never made it in the local news or even the local newspaper eh?

Come on raw, just give me your email addy and I'll email you the pic you claim will prove something.

I am not buying that you don't have an email addy.

I'm not giving you my main one. Just wait and this will all be over if you are innocent.

And refusing to answer my kkk story question. tisk tisk tisk.

Well make up your mind, rawisbetter.

First it was "Hey, he could end all of this, but refuses to."

Now its "Just wait and this will all be over if you are innocent."

Hey, I am trying to help you with your obsession. I'll wait.

Contacting the authorities? Cool, they will be happy to explain it to you I am sure.

"Contacting the authorities? Cool, they will be happy to explain it to you I am sure."

And what is that suspossed to mean?

I simply meant that they will explain that I am not Arnold, or whoever you claimed I am.

That they will explain to you that you are wrong. After all, the ONLY evidence you have ever had is the picture of arnold (that you claim looks like me) and the fact that I am 47 and on a forum that is mainly kids. Now, I am sure they will look at GameTalk, and they will see that the forums in question are discussions of politics, spirituality and similar subject. I am sure they will check and they will see that there are numerous people over 30, quite a few over 40, and some even older than that. This they will all patiently explain to you.

Stop being paranoid raw. I meant nothing sinister. If I were to sue you for liable or slander, you would be notified by registered mail not by a post on GameTalk.

To be fair you and Masse brought up the topic of taking legal action against me.

And according to that poll in Life, over 55% of the people there are under 18.

55% of them were UNDER 18? Or are you including the under 21 crowd in that 55%?

But then, I am sure that every person who posts on the Life Forum participated in that poll, so that it is completely accurate.

And lets say that it IS accurate. That means that 45% of the people in Life Forum are adults.

I have not posted anything inappropriate in any forum. Check with the rules of the forum and the mods.

But yes, Masse and I did bring up the idea of legal action.

The reason I said something about the authorities is that they are the only ones who could "prove" my innocence. Unless you contact some member of my family or my work. And I think that would prove exceedingly difficult.

Let me ask you raw, how many fist fights have you been in during your lifetime?

The reason I asked about the fights was I was curious how many of them made the newspapers.

At the age of 18 I was 6'2", 225lbs and was in excellent physical shape. (just an FYI for ya)

Its time for me to shower, shave my old noggin and get to bed. I have to leave at 4am to drive to atlanta for work. I'll be on the road in the Carolinas and Virginia next week, so my internet time may be sporadic.

Have fun and I'll wait patiently.

"55% of them were UNDER 18? Or are you including the under 21 crowd in that 55%?"

No, I only count the 16 and under votes.

"But then, I am sure that every person who posts on the Life Forum participated in that poll, so that it is completely accurate."

55 votes within 3 days.

"The reason I asked about the fights was I was curious how many of them made the newspapers."

This isn't some fight over a woman. This is an 18 year old saving a kid from KKK members WHO HAD WEAPONS! And no, I've never been in a fist fight.

LALA LARALALA LALA LARALALA, you are right on some counts. Not in the parts where you deduce how my life is, but then the fact that my behaviour painted that picture to you is certainly something I will meditate about, but you do have a point about the way I tackled this matter.

But, as you will see if you read the whole exchange, I tried several times to approach the matter with in a different way, a much more serious one, all to no avail. Which is why I tried the 'funny' approach. Because sometimes truth is more evident in jokes. Even bad ones.

My only aim was to point out that anything could be, as far as we are concerned. KingRaw here mounts up his campaign carefully selecting the parts he considers 'truth' and the ones he considers 'lies'. What are his criteria for his choice are unknown to us. One one hand he decides that my trip to Vegas was just imagined, then again his decision is based on something which was never verified (like he asks of WInterBorn's identity). Got any proof that I'm Italian? Got any proof that I was 13 in 1978? Yet those are the 'facts' used to disbelieve other 'facts'.

Which is why we'll never get out of it, no matter how many times KingRaw comes up with something which 'could end all of this'.

That's why we are now back to square one, having failed to reach any signficant result no matter the approach used.

And square one is: either KingRaw ceases to defamate WinterBorn, or he ceases to post at all.

And to get things clear: freedom of speech applies to ideas and opinions, not to facts. KingRaw may well hold the opinion that somebody is a pedophile, same way as I may well hold the opinion that he is a moron, same way as LALA (repat LA accordingly) may well hold the opinion that I'm a bitter 40 year old failure. Those are opinions, and their only limitation is that they are expressed on a private website, meaning that they could be 'censored' if the website owner or the persons in charge of the website deem those 'opinions' unsuitable.

But when people state false facts intended to harm the reputation of somebody, that's no longer covered by 'freedom of speech'. That's defamation and it falls under either civil or criminal jurisdiction accordingly.

KingRaw here has stated several times as a fact that WinterBorn's real identity is that of a known sex offender and he has added as a fact that I'm covering up for him. That's more than enough for me to take actions which go beyond tagging and banning.

But I'm more than willing to save the costs of a legal action if the defamation stops. Here and now.

Good-bye, KingRaw. Having ascertained to my satisfaction that there is no feasible way to talk you out of your illicit behaviour, you go back to being a non-person to me. Unless you force me to take notice of you again, in which case you'll be contacted by your provider, or by the competent authorities or by my lawyers accordingly.

Not to condone the way Raw's been treating WinterBorn or anything but aren't mod's not suppoused to flame regs? Calling Raw a moron seems out-of-hand to me. I mean sure he causes alot of contraversy and all but I don't think he's a moron. The ability to cause the contraversy to me would indicate that he's intelligent. its a gift to be able to do that.

And Masse you talk too much ^^; I'm suprized I read all that.

But yeah just cause Raw antagonizes you doens't give you a right to be so demeaning to him Masse. He desserves more respect then that. in class today we we're tlaking about communication and how you should respect people. In establishing relationships you're suppoused to accept people for who they are. That's what you should do with Raw. That's whatt I do and I don't have problems with him. You should try the smae Masse. Not call him names- that get's you nowhere. You need to learn better etiquette.

Bleh, I'm done ranting...

Just my last contribution to this post.

I agree with greatestbryan, and I also want to add that I don't think it's fair for you to threaten him with "legal action" with "your lawyers" against him when you know that's impossible. Even if you lived next door to him. And specially if all he did was calling another nickname over the internet a pedophile. This nickname, this internet personage happened to be a friend of yours and you don't like your friends being messed with so you just banned him. In my opinion, that's a very stupid use of the buffet of lawyers that is apparently at your disposition.

Also, perhaps excessive swearing would be a better excuse for a ban. But he hasn't done that.

Honestly, I'm not trying to side with Raw, but I simply have to because I see this as unfair. You make false threats, and he, being somewhat dumb, may just believe you. That's taking advantage of him. Winterborn, being smart, should simply ignore Raw.

Thanks for the support man.

^My reply also applies to Tek.

"He desserves more respect then that."

How many times is one supposed to offer an olive branch and receive a snake bite before one is allowed to be a little blunt with a thing like rawibs?

You have not been privy to the goings on over/nearly a year in regards to the acts committed by Rawibs. I can understand how you think what both of you are saying is correct and proper (except calling the word 'moron' flaming...that's just sad), but you are not seeing this through the same eyes as Masse, Winterborn, me, and a number of others.

Rawibs exhibits disturbing behaviors bordering on 'dangerous'. There have many goings on kept pretty dern quiet around here....and if the MORON in question had been paying attention, he/she would have realized the amount of protection being afforded him/her.

You are wise in wanting to treat others with respect, but there is a line drawn in the sand, no matter who you are. Masse and Winterborn are not buddies, they are internet acquaintances with whom I enjoy a few words every so often. We are in agreement (mostly) on the Rawibs area of things, but we don't see eye to eye on everything nor do we fly to each other's aid the moment we think one of us has been defamed. This is getting to be an old problem, this Rawibs thing, and I am sick of the way Rawibs treats people. It's not just some farce; s/he's not just using satire as his/her internet persona. SOME of it is that, but the myriad of ways in which Rawibs attacks people is unacceptable.

There's a reason Masse's actions are well-supported by others. Please try to understand this. in my opinion, it's important.

Demonize me all you want, it should be obvious that it's not the worst thing to ever happen to me...but try to use a bit of your own understanding with regards to Masse.

I have ignored him. I have debated with him. I have even defended him.

Rawisbetter has announced that he has proof that I am a pedophile. There are at least 3 forums in which he has done this.

Its not just name calling. In my mind, this is a serious accusation, especially when he says he has proof.

You know he doesn't. It's not a serious accusation. It's just some kid fooling around.

Keep ignoring me LALA...you can pretend to see this clearly, but I am afraid you seem to keep tossing mud into your own eyes.

Rawibs passed the 'harmless kid' point a long time ago.

LALALA, I guess you can say what you want. But offering up a website pic as proof is all some folks need.

I think its a pretty serious accusation.

But, should I just stay away from all the forums he is allowed in?

Why is it that my defending myself is bad, Masse spending weeks asking, then telling, then demanding, and finally threatening Raw is all bad.

But what raw has done is apparently ok?

Odd set of priorities

Referring to Brian:

Hmmm, I see your point, but you have iut all wrong. Raw is a troll, seeing that you read all those posts and still couldn't tell causes me to guess that you are not familiar with trolls. Trolls are people who go to forums and create ruckuses to generate attention, be it positive (Unlikely) or almost always, negtative. They create these "Controversies" not due to their own general intereest in the matter, but to satisfy their lonliness, psychosis, fanaticism, low self-esteem, or whatever reason that drives them to troll.

Rawisb is not a reg by usual terms. Most regs gain respect by their contributions to whatever online society they visit, and stay because they have become accepted by it, usually. Rawisb is still here because he will not leave, no matter how many times we tell him no. Hell, he was even banned for a short time, but apparently, the mods don't have the wisdom to just perma-ban him, and aparrently, very few people are able to thoroughly resist trolls. He stays here out of a fanatical determination to gain negative attention from a vulnerable forum and to inflate and impose his ego due to his own life being shitty.

He is not intelligent; The difference between an intelligent man with a point and a troll is that the intelligent man will give up and accept the fact he is wrong, not kissing ass, but using the information against him to further correct his intellect and become stronger. A troll, such as Rawisb, will never admit defeat, primarily because they can't handle the thought of losing again; so, they deny, they twist words, they contradict themselves, they change subjects, they totally ignore questions, or they refuse to defend their "side" at all and out-right attack who ever's against them. Rawisb, as you can see, is cornered, so he will not accept the fact that he must obey the rules of the site, that it is a privately owned site with rules conformed to it's own structure, and when he can ONLY accept it, he makes a route of his own, with his whole "Imma' freedom fighter against internet-facists, I'm fighting for freedom!", his way of being a crybaby about not having his way and having to follow rules like everyone else in the fucking world and most of cyberspace. His other troll-tactic is bringing up shit from the past that he also will not allow himself to beleive because of certain "Holes" he creates in the story that he can use as loopholes for himself to use as completely fictional "evidence" to use, in this case, against Winterborn, such as his "KKK Story".

His kind of "Arguing" took, nor takes no skill, but merely sadism fueled by a pathetic life behind the "Internet Tuff-Guy" facade (in which all Internet Tuff-guys, no matter what they say, are all still losers).

Do not pity Rawisb, he's spent the whole of his term on this forum doing almost nothing but antagonizing it's members, and attracting racists, neo-nazis, sexists, and all the Lunatics and Fanatics, including Neo-cons, of the Right-Wing.

We swear and threaten him, and by "We" I mean those who want this parasite removed by such actions, because it's the only way we can really get him off.

To kill a troll there are really only 2 effective ways: 1., To ignore them, as you remember, trolls feed off of any attention they receive, so by ignoring them, they starve and eventually go away to try another forum. 2., to repetitively or permanantley ban them, preferably the latter.

Contention #1 is impossible due to the fact that neither side really wants to back down, Raw won't back down because he's a troll, and the other side won't back down because of the failures of Contention #2 see the next paragraph). They really can't back down becasue it's the only way they have left to shake him off, without this alternative, we might as well make him a mod and let him do whatever he wants. I mean, we can't JUST ignore him because even if all the true regs, including me shut up, some new or random guy usually falls for his traps, "Traps" being posts that grab the attention of readers, driving them to post to him, and then escalating the issue with the poor newb, therefore, getting the attention that was lost by our silence, and encouraging him to stay and feed off more attention. #2 doesn't work because since we have no direct Mod here, and that there are plenty of roaming trolls on Gametalk, Rawisb hardly gets attention from people who can make a difference, so we can't really get much support, except for occasional post erasing and tagging. What they're doing in this post is the only effective alternative we have.

As for the comradery going on here, I don't think Masse, Tek, and Winter can really help but defend each other against Rawisb's stupid claims. I don't think it's really a matter of the rules bending to protect certain members and thereby giving them an unfair advantage, as Rawisb claims. That is not going on. Raw is like an infected scratch, he is made miniscule in the larger schemes of thing going on in this site, but he's still admittably annoying, and therefore, even the mods who know him dissaprove, or out-right hate the guy. It's really rather understandable.

I mean, Bryan, you talk about giving him respect and etc. like we're the antagonists here (hence, what tells me that you really don't know the background of this row, and understandably sees Rawisb as the "victim") Rawisb pretty much introduced himself to this forum by turning his suspicion of Winter's "KKK-Story" into an ordeal that's been going on for months, including something called "Catfish County" (I myself am unclear on exactly what happened, wasn't paying much attention to it). Raw is not a pilgrim looking for respect and understnding, but a lurker looking for territory in which he can vent his low self-esteem and extreme beleifs upon other members of this forum to a point of outrage.

There IS a difference between "Controversey" and "Antagonism". Controversey is usually when a statement (Psycholigy, ideas, art, media and culture, etc.) gains attention and causes the people to divide on the issue, the war in Iraq is controversial because some still beleive it's right while otehrs beleive we fucked up; Abortion is controversial because some say that the Fetus counts as a Human being and that it's life is more important, while the pro-choice side beleives that the fetus is not a child yet, and the woman's rights come before the fetuses. Galileo and Socrates were controversial in their time because it challenged what was the common set of mind and beleif that the Authorities of their times were against. Those were prime examples of controversy.

Antagonism, on the other hand, just makes people angry for the whole point of making people angry. Usually, since the more emotionally invested in a dividing controversy are often angered by their beleifs being challenged, Antagonism and Controversey can usually tangle the unobservant. However, behind controversey is a driving force for change, a rift caused by a force of change, whether it be to break out from the mindset of the conformist, to bring light to what was kept dark, or to adress what the people refused to admit or see, a force is started by a revolutionary force, be it the unique and revolutionary thinking of a man who refuses to bow to the ruling mindset, or an event that sparks to life a fire, which in time causes a wave effect upon the world. Antagonism, on the other hand, is shallow, intended for the sole purpose of grabbing the attention of all nearby and making them angry enough to keep fueling the antagonist.

Rawisb is a self-created antagonist. He came here like a leech to get some negative attention to feed his own poverty in his mind. He does this everywhere he goes. Gametalk is not the only site he does this shit at, ask Winter and Tek for more information on that (I myself don't bother tracking him), he goes all over the damn Net looking for forums like these, but the reason he often trolls here is because the mods THERE actually bother banning him, leaving this place his haven to act as immaturely and obnoxiously as he can to no consequence. He knows this too, so that whole part about "he might beleive you using legal action against him" thing is bull shit. Even if we COULDN'T do anything legal to him (Which, by the way, I think we can if we state the case the right way), he would most likely tell himself, like he has been doing for pretty much the whole time, deny it and go on his whole "Freedom Fighter" rant