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Spirituality, Religion, Theology, and Philosophy

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Moderated by Xhin
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Posted by: Parce Domine
The square of the hypotenuse of a right triangle is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides.
May 8, 2008  (over 3 days ago)
Gematria (for Christians)

Does your religion recognize the numerical significance of words in the Bible? Do you recognize the meaning of numbers used in the Bible or do you take them literally?

What does your religion teach about the number 144,000?

Whose name is 666?

What is the numeric value of Jesus' name in Greek?

Is there any significance to the 153 fish in John 21?

There are 11 Replies:
Message Person and Time

Ah... I do not pay attention to the numerical value of words.

I do pay attention to the numerical value of numbers though.

Whose name IS 666? I do not get that. 666 is the mark of the Beast.

Salt and Light
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

666 is the mark of the Beast.

False. Common misconception.

I can't exactly remember, but I think it's either 667 or 668, though I think it's 667.

Smiling Apple
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

Well, sir... it is what is written in the Bible, so I am not sure how far you can use the idea of a misconception.

My Bible has a note that some scriptures read 616.

Salt and Light
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

My Bible also notes that early readers of the Scripture will have attributed 666 to Nero. The greek letters that spelt his name represent numbers that totalled 666. The notes are not clear about whether Nero was around at the time of the original writing though.

Salt and Light
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

Always a wonder when atheists turn to a Christian and start pointing out apparent misconceptions about their own scriptures.

Salt and Light
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six. (Rev 13:18)

The numeral letters of his name are 666, which is nrwn qsr. Nero.

Parce Domine
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

My Bible has a note that some scriptures read 616.

That's true, and it's how we know it's Nero. When Latinists translated it right after it was written, it became 616 because the Latin form of Nero's name is nrw qsr. But the very early Christians knew that it was Nero and translated it back to 666.

Parce Domine
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

Semantic Apple?

Do you have anything to back up your 667 idea?

And, may, I ask, where did you learn this common misconception?

Salt and Light
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

My bad. It's either 616 or 665, but not 666.

The earliest known record of the Book of Revelation (from the 3rd Century) gives the Number of the Beast as 616.

I believe I first learnt about it from an episode of QI, and my stepfather commented on it, telling me that the original number of the beast was almost certainly 616, and that this probably referred to Nero as a code deriving from the Latin for his name.

You may not like atheists pointing out misconceptions about 'your' scriptures, but we have just as much authority on the subject as Christians do. My stepfather is a Priest and has a PhD in Theology. I've asked him about a lot, and he has a lot of books on the subject, some of which I've read.

Smiling Apple
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

Early era representation of the numeratic numbers have been seen throughout the globe in many religions, Jesus numeratic value falls under 888, 666 is said to be the mark of the beast however in most people's name's the numeratic numbers can be arranged into 666,That being said whose name would you prefer Prince charles,Pope john paul the 2nd, The list goes on and on.As for john 21,It has many meanings because it speaks of the seven deciples and so forth so in essence there are many things one could coagulate it into,such as Jesus lived for 12,240 days which equals 80 times 153 & Jesus ministered for 918 days which equals to 6o times 153 if you look at the number 153 in just that a number there are thousands of ways to create a speciied opinion from any religion.

Celtwanderer
May 8, 2008
(over 3 days ago)

The earliest known record of the Book of Revelation (from the 3rd Century) gives the Number of the Beast as 616.

The earliest known Latin translations (from the 1st century) are the ones that list 616. But John wrote in Greek, which is why he wrote it as 666 and why it was translated back by the early Christians after it translated to Latin as 616. The difference comes from having one less "n" in the Latin form of Nero's name.

The numeric value of Jesus' name in Greek is indeed 888.

The number 12 represents a complete cycle. Multiplying a number by itself intensifies the meaning of that number. Multiplying a number by 10, 100, or 1,000 is also a sign of intensity, (the higher the number the stronger the meaning). So 12x12 is signifies a universal completeness. 12x12 is the total total (everything and everybody), and it's emphasized by the multiplication of 1,000. It represents the innumerable hosts of totality times totality times a thousand, not a mere 144,000 of the literal translation.

The Hebrews and Greeks used gematria extensively, and it's very unlikely that the number is nothing more than a number. If a specific number is used, especially in the New Testament, it is unlikely that the number has no other significance.

This is the second time Jesus directs their fishing, but the number of fish is not mentioned the first time. It's after Jesus has called them to be "fishers of men," and after he has told them about the judgement and taking the creatures on his right. Why the specifics this time and not the first time? Because there is significance to these details. Ten Commandments must be followed to get into heaven. But nobody can do it on their own. Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit provide the graces needed. But these aren't things that can be taken all lumped together; they must be veiwed individually within the groups. When you add all the numbers from each of the Ten Commandments and all the numbers from each of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, you get 153; to get to the right side. Of course, the fish represent man.

Parce Domine
May 9, 2008
(over 2 days ago)


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